tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7004453.post8671195777330686880..comments2023-09-02T19:53:06.144+05:30Comments on Understanding and applying value investing principles: Hidden value – Kirloskar oil engines – Report cardRohit Chauhanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00356455735241398199noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7004453.post-86798095573177710962007-10-01T11:07:00.000+05:302007-10-01T11:07:00.000+05:30Hi rajendran,can you please send me a copy of the ...Hi rajendran,<BR/><BR/>can you please send me a copy of the set to nvenkataraman1975@gmail.com<BR/><BR/>thanks <BR/>venkatAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7004453.post-6943643939219636282007-09-30T23:54:00.000+05:302007-09-30T23:54:00.000+05:30Thanks in advance :-)Thanks in advance :-)Option Tradinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03893124733063142377noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7004453.post-46388736981853898712007-09-30T23:53:00.000+05:302007-09-30T23:53:00.000+05:30Please send the notes to me as well at ashishsachd...Please send the notes to me as well at ashishsachdev@rediffmail.comOption Tradinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03893124733063142377noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7004453.post-82917190445940188882007-09-21T19:06:00.000+05:302007-09-21T19:06:00.000+05:30Hi rajendranthanks a lot for the offer. can you em...Hi rajendran<BR/>thanks a lot for the offer. can you email the notes to rohitc99@gmail.com. I got a set from shankar nath, but i am not sure if they are the same. <BR/><BR/>is there someway we can get the notes for the current year or previous few years from ex-student, ofcourse with due permission from prof bakshi<BR/><BR/>regards<BR/>rohitRohit Chauhanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00356455735241398199noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7004453.post-31013751806550052792007-09-21T18:59:00.000+05:302007-09-21T18:59:00.000+05:30I saw you asking Prof.Bakshi to share his class no...I saw you asking Prof.Bakshi to share his class notes. I have his class notes for 2001 .I got from Shankar Nath with Prof.Bakshi's permission. His only concern is the material should not be put in the internet. If you want , I can e-mail what I have . Please let me know your e-mail id<BR/><BR/>Thanks,<BR/>RajendranAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7004453.post-20021394006925760202007-09-20T09:47:00.000+05:302007-09-20T09:47:00.000+05:30Regarding investment value of holdings esp ones wh...Regarding investment value of holdings esp ones where they are strategic like promoter holding through the company one area which most people miss out is regarding cross holding and net value of investment. If the promoter ownership is through cross holding it will be stupid to assume value will be unlocked. Suppose company A owns shares company B and B owns shares in A then the value of investment book should be mcap of A's holding in B minus B's holding in A so that the impact of promoter not diluting his stake is captured. Also we have to assume the impact of capital gains if any. Finolex cable/finolex ind. is another case in point. <BR/><BR/>What I have found useful in valuing these investments is assuming that the value will never be unlocked but I consider the PV of the possible dividend payouts (A DDM could help). In Finolex Cable./Finolex Ind, example I found this this becomes sizeable as Fin Ind. is good dividend paying company. <BR/><BR/>Comments invitedSharadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08046094306488115197noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7004453.post-79315324825819462102007-09-19T13:24:00.000+05:302007-09-19T13:24:00.000+05:30Not necessary.Even in case of non-pro group cos or...Not necessary.<BR/>Even in case of non-pro group cos or cash or land - its not essential that value would be realised - or assets should be valued fully.<BR/><BR/>For ex - bharat seats (Relans enjoying fiefdom and sitting on useless non-pro investments, massive land) or Orient Paper (unwilling to sell off investment in competing birla-bro co like Century worth 130c, while at the same time raising 160c on rights!) or Japs like India Nippon or Denso, always foolishly hoarding cash!<BR/><BR/>The sbi land story is nothing but crap. Some fools sitting in HK offices also started talking about infosys - from land angle in 2006 - when having land was the paramount thing on earth! <BR/><BR/>As barton biggs said, we should always be in quest for the investment truth ;)<BR/><BR/>V^Value Architectshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03604888862603675789noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7004453.post-19734978999990650732007-09-19T01:39:00.000+05:302007-09-19T01:39:00.000+05:30lets take a hypothetical example. lets say a promo...lets take a hypothetical example. lets say a promoter - mr rich controls 3 companies and one holding company. mr rich owns 51% in holding company and owns 10% each in the other companies (A,B and C). the holding company in turn has a 30% holding in each company A,B,and C. B hold another 20% in A and C and so on<BR/>so here the promoter has created a pyramid structure. he personally holds only 10% in A,B and C but via holding company and due to cross holding he is able to control the other companies A,B and C<BR/>these holding are created so that promoters can control companies without investing substantially in those companies. as a result these indirect and cross holding will never be liquidated, or else the promoter could lose the control of these companiesRohit Chauhanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00356455735241398199noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7004453.post-42750794065797296522007-09-19T00:14:00.000+05:302007-09-19T00:14:00.000+05:30hi allcud sum1 explain "these assets are promoter ...hi all<BR/><BR/>cud sum1 explain "these assets are promoter cross holding which would never be liquidated. so there is essentially no catalyst at all."<BR/><BR/>i am guessing aftek or geodesic might be one such scenario rite?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7004453.post-35154357517857195762007-09-18T22:28:00.000+05:302007-09-18T22:28:00.000+05:30i agree with your point that there has to be catal...i agree with your point that there has to be catalyst to unlock the value. in most companies, these assets are promoter cross holding which would never be liquidated. so there is essentially no catalyst at all.<BR/>however the above maynot be the case if the investments are cash or equivalents or non group companies. <BR/>by same token undervalued land has also been used to justify higher valuations for several companies like SBI etcRohit Chauhanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00356455735241398199noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7004453.post-91508305335388259472007-09-18T09:18:00.000+05:302007-09-18T09:18:00.000+05:30Its a crazy thought to take refuge under a hidden ...Its a crazy thought to take refuge under a hidden asset, unless taking a activist position to unlock it. The very idea of hidding such value by the promotor is NOT to share it.<BR/><BR/>I think Marty Whitman said something like, "a bargain which remains a bargin, is not a bargain" (conservative aggressive investor)<BR/><BR/>Not that unlocking doesnt happen - but it happens too often too late. Just like Tata investments - which has always remained a undervalued closed ended fund. Now the pros are making little marketmen happy by giving them a piece of cake. Rejoice!Value Architectshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08725808087736481381noreply@blogger.com